And, this is mainly due to the type of guns that chamber it. I wasn't really planning on getting full guns but I went to see a guy about parts for originals and he had these. However, most people still … evil dogooder, Guys will grind their teeth with envy! The 44-40 had three rounds in the trap door but it's in rougher shape, The 38-40 just feels better to me and runs smoother, I wish I could but it's not in the cards. That is not what I am going to use them for but I got the ammo to crono when I started working with them which I haven't done yet. Frequently such threads do not define better for what purpose. The original Winchester and Marlin had a twist of 1 in 38 and 1 in 36. I do have an original 1873 Winchester chambered for 38-40 as well as a couple of Bisley Colts also chambered for 38-40. .38-40 Winchester - Another revolver cartridge, in this case a black powder number only half as powerful as the .357 Magnum..44-40 Winchester - Notably underpowered compared to the .357 Magnum. I took a long time rebuilding an old Marlin 1894 in 38WCF. The .44 mag is the better cartridge but I wouldn't hesitate to make a 100 yard shot on a deer with my 44-40. I have been shooting it since 1976. I believe this is a sleeper round in our game. We worked out a deal. Various calibers. The .38 Special also falls under the .38 caliber since it improved on the .38 Long Colt. What I found when I loaded up 38-40 with the same amount of powder as 44-40 was the soft lead bullets were squashing slightly when I seated them on the powder. I am a big fan of the 44wcf. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .38 Special or .44 S&W Special cartridge you're looking at purchasing. Well, we argue that the .38 Special is still a super relevant caliber today. The .44 Associates and several industry notables helped influence Smith & Wesson and Remington to ultimately develop the .44 Magnum, though it was primarily Elmer Keith that was the ultimate persuader. Yes, the .44 Special could be fired in a .44 Rem Mag for low recoil practice (much the way .38 Special rounds can be fired in a revolver chambered for .357 Magnum) and no doubt that’s what has kept the cartridge in the ammo maker’s catalogs all these years, but few handguners were actually buying guns chambered for .44 Special. I shoot my 38WCF born in 1890. My last complaint my be a bit hypocritical, considering I’m such a … If you shoot 401 Bullets in a 403 barrel the Bullets will Key Hole. King River Regulators and Chorro Valley Regulators, Faultline Shootist Society, Coyote Valley Cowboys, Coyote Valley Sharpshooters, Full-time Mr. So what’s the difference between the .380 and the .38 Special? A great number of you reading this might be considering a conceal and carry weapon. Sell me the .38-40 and buy lots of components for the .44-40-very simple, Sell me the 44-40 and J. It also has a longer case length compared to the other cartridges. It’s not a magnum, but not far from it and definitely more powerful than a .38 Special and more potent than a revolver that’s chambered to fire .45 ACP like some are. Performance wise, when comparing the two cartridges, no appreciable difference could be noticed. That the biggest complaint about the 44 wcf . Modern 38-40 brass has slightly less powder capacity than modern 44-40 brass. If keeping both, I would use the 44-40 more just because I have more components and all of my other rifles are in 44-40, save for, oddly enough, and original Winchester made in 1887 in 38-40. I bought three original 73s in .38 WCF and one un .32 WCF. If I'd found 38's when I was starting the game I would have bought them. In point of fact, the .38-40 is about ballistically equivalent of the .40 S&W with 180 gr. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. When Colt resumed production of the Colt Single Action in 1955, followed by the modernized version of the Flat Top Target, the New Frontier, in 1962, the calibers were .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, and .44 Special. Copyright 2019 sassnet.com What happens if you shoot 401 bullets in the gun that likes 403? and created a small cavity in the gel. Plus, you might not have made your mind up about whether to get a pistol or revolver. However, there used to be a Hi-Speed hunting load for use in rifles. 38WCF is my choice. I'm afraid I'll run across a pair of pistols in that caliber. This means a .38 Special round can be safely used in revolvers with a .357 Magnum chamber and .38 Special-chambered .38 Long Colt revolvers. One of the positives in the last recession was that the price of shooter-grade old guns dropped. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .38 Special and .44 S&W Special ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. By 500 yards it has dropped a massive 753 inches (over 60 feet). The .45 Colt, .44 Special, and .38 Super are effective, accurate rounds with a long, distinguished history. That being said, get, keep and shoot both. (10 shots 25 steps from rest). The .44-40 Winchester cartridge is undeniably one of the calibers that created America. Missouri Bullet Company made me a special run of 402 Hi-Tek bullets. I sold the .38 WCF guns and kept the .32. It is not particularly well suited to hunting larger game, but it was popular when it … I run an original born in 1892 and a Chaparral. Walmart here used to sell 44-40 but it was 45.00 bucks per 50 rounds. Slug the barrel of any of them. The 44-40 round is legal to use on deer in NH as is the 38-40 I beleive and last summer I purchased a box each of Winchester ammo they spec for deer. The bottom line is that the .44 Magnum, naturally, puts a … Brass for both are widely available through Starline or a distributor for both. I can't say anything about the 44-40, but I've got a few 38-40s. I really like the 38WCF. I guess what I am saying , Slug the Barrel. Answers rang out for and against each cartridge. Sent you a pm on the 44-40  and its condition. Of course with modern solid head brass the interior capacity is a little bit less. There are lots of “.38” calibers, all of which share a bullet diameter of about 0.36 inch (the grooves of the rifling are cut out to 0.38″). 38/40  = recoil management. the .38 special didnt make it through the block of gel. I shot all four some, and three in SASS matches. These include the .38 S&W, .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, and the .38 Super cartridges. Both are sweet. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. Guess that tells you which I would be shooting. The .38 refers to a caliber that has a .357 inch bullet diameter. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. The.38-40 Winchester is actually a.40 caliber cartridge shooting.401 caliber bullets. Had some pictures shooting 155 bullets and muzzle rise was less than some of the 38 loads used by my son. This cartridge was introduced for rifles, but in its reintroduction for Cowboy Action Shooting it has seen some popularity as a revolver cartridge. JMHO. I believe the round was developed for the Winchester 1873 and then found its way into handguns. Most said that the 38-40 sealed better and, therefore, was easier to clean. As my interest in handguns blossomed, I, too, was smitten by the prose of several gun writers of the day as they touted the virtues of the .44 Spl. Soft bullets have no problem slugging up in the barrel. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does not pertain to a particular manufacturer, bullet weight, or jacketing type. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .38 Special vs .44 S&W Special ammo rounds. Just clean the bore and I am good to go. Mine still has the factory springs and give a good workout. Have not experienced any key holing. I know, the .44-40 has probably killed more deer than anything except the .30-30. We offer a 100% Authenticity Guarantee on all products sold on our website. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .38 Special round averages out to 240 ft-lb, while a .44 S&W Special round averages out to about 360 ft-lb. None were produced in .44-40. At 200 yards the round has dropped around 62 inches (5 feet). Mark the 38-40 and go buy ya a MarlinCB. I like that the .32 has more steel (third gen, mostly steel gun) and a fraction of the powder charge of the .38 cartridge. I have more experience with 44-40 than 38-40, so that would be my choice. 9mm vs .38 Special – Conceal and Carry. And to this day, I am still kicking myself for not buying that Fourteen Inch Barreled one in .38-40 soon after the ATF said they were no longer SBR's for Twelve Hundred Bucks at a local gunshow. For a revolver cartridge, it’s fairly stout. Little ones need guns of their own. 40, and much of the article compared it to the 44-40. Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. That is to say, .38 Special bullets travel 1 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .40 S&W bullets travel 1.2 times that same speed. August 23, 2019 in SASS Wire. I have two 38-40s. Read in some of the magazines years ago . I would take the 44-40 myself, as i am all geared up  for that caliber. Again it depends on the type of firearm preffered. In our .38 Special vs. .357 Magnum article you will learn everything you need to know about the differences and similarities between the two cartridges as well as the use cases that favor the .38 Special and those that favor the .357 Magnum. Examining .44-Special Revolvers for Personal Defense. The old logic was they would both take 40 grains of powder. I was thinking of trying fcgf, or classic cowboy. Grandsons, motorcycles, firearms, 60s & 70s muscle cars. I remember an article in Guns and Ammo many, many years ago about the 38-40, and much of the article compared it to the 44-40. It has been said that it hits harder and shoots flatter. Shoots good now. Since I lean towards being lazy I opted for the 38-40. Not so critical if the groove diameter of the barrel is .403 and you use that diameter bullets and especially with smokeless powders. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for each caliber and does … Anyplace that is foolish enough to let me shoot. What I found when I loaded up 38-40 with the same amount of powder as 44-40 was the soft lead bullets were squashing slightly when I seated them on the powder. These three great handgun cartridges have defended life and limb, plus put venison on the table, for a century and a half. Comments have to be approved before showing up, © 2021 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .38 Special vs .44 S&W Special Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. I like the 38-40, it has been called the 357 Mag of it's day, but for playing this game my choice would be the 44-40 between the two. If the special happens to chamber in your .44-40 rifle, I sure wouldn' t shoot it... Don' t know about the .44 magnum. I just stumbled upon a deal for a pair of shooter original 73 winchesters. If I remember rite the 38-40 has the same  energy as a 10 mm pistol. Why so slow of a twist rate for these old calibers. shooting, reloading, motorcycles with and without sidecars, leatherworking, Blackpowder bullet casting, Shooting, Military Arms Collecting, History, Boy Scouts. For a rifle, it’s relatively low powered. The Colt died again in 1974, only to be resurrected in 1978. I cut back slightly on the BP charge, while still compressing the powder slightly, and everything was fine. Generally speaking, the higher the muzzle energy, the higher the stopping power. Which one can you get brass for??? Like the .38 Spl., the .44 Spl. A .38 Special is intended for use in revolvers whereas a .40 S&W is meant for semi-auto pistols or sub machine guns. In a game where the targets are typically 25 feet in front of the shooter, neither is better over the other...shoot both The 38 had no greater velocity than the 44, had the same effective range, penetrated the same number of pine boards, which was an old time measure of performance back in the day, fired the same weight of bullets, had identical accuracy, and so on and so forth. As a rule of thumb, when it comes to hunting, muzzle energy is what many hunters look at when deciding on what caliber of firearm / ammunition to select. One in 38-40 one on 44-40. On other sites I have seen threads asking which is better, .44 Special or .45 Colt? One takes 401 Bullets the other one takes 403. This caused them to swell up slightly so they would not chamber in the '73. Also, .38 Special ammunition generates less recoil, and therefore may be more pleasant to use during target-practice sessions. I plan to shoot both but is there an advantage to either? However, a .357 cartridge will not usually fire in handguns specifically made for a .38 Special cartridge..380 vs .38 Special. Since magnum rounds have been more or less THE thing for revolvers since basically the 1930s, fewer gun makers have been willing to bother selling a .44 Special revolver. Handloading is a bit difficult since carbide dies are not available and the thin neck can easily be crumpled, especially if one uses too much lubricant. I have seen original Winchester '73's with groove diameters running anywhere from .427 to .434"! The latter seems to garner higher prices. has been with us since the turn of the 20th century and much like the .38, the .44 Spl. Different shooters and firearms experts have aired their opinions and views regarding the use of the two rounds and their applications. The .44 Special created a wave of enthusiasm that resulted in a group forming during the 1930s known as “The .44 Associates” that shared load data, bullet designs, hunting experiences, etc. One thing I learned when I loaded up my first BP 38-40 rounds was not to put in quite as much powder as I did with 44-40. The .44-40 Win (aka .44 WCF) is a slightly bottlenecked cartridge that uses very thin brass. If there is one advantage of the 44WCF over the 38WCF it's that the 44WCF has a longer neck. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. The 30-40 uses a .40 caliber bullet. We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. All of my 44-40's seal the chamber to the point that I don't even need to touch the action. A .40 S&W can have velocities at 1,114 fps vs. a .38 Special which can have 1,037 fps. This makes the .44 Special cartridge an attractive alternative for reduced velocity target shooting and plinking. So a .38 Special round exits the barrel with kinetic energy equal to the energy required for linear vertical displacement of 240 pounds through a one foot distance, while a .44 S&W Special round exiting the barrel has energy equal to the amount required to displace 360 pounds over the same one foot distance. Stupid...  Stupid... Stupid.... Im leaning more toward the 38-40. I have been reloading the .44-40 for well over 50 years. In other words, the article asked why the cartridge was ever created in the first place. .357 Magnum vs .38 Special comparison. Lock''n Loaded had a segment where they were shooting a few pistol rounds into some balistics gelatin. Why it was ever called a .38 is unknown. I prefer the .44-40, but the difference is really small. Comparing the .44 Special & .45 Colt . The decision for which round is better for a given application should be made with complete information, and this article simply serves as a comparative guide, not the final say. Just like the.357 Magnum was made by making the .38 Special's case a little longer and adding more powder, the .44 Magnum was invented by doing the same thing with the .44 Special. Here's why you must give them a try. Usual full load of APP or BMZ. Use 180 grain in the rifles and 140 grain in the revolvers. 9 hours ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said: my family, guns, motorcycles, muscle cars, classical music, sports, reading, art, theater, history. Now I can pull them apart and get measurements then have a ball shooting them. The cartridge was introduced by Winchester in 1874 and is derived from their.44-40 Winchester. That it would recache off a cream pie. Another key factor fueling the Special's comeback is its ability to fit in the longer chambers of the aforementioned .44 Magnum revolvers, much like the .38 Special fits in the longer chambers of the .357 Magnum. I've got one 44 WCF '60 Henry rifle and one 38 WCF '73 short rifle, one 38 WCF '73 carbine, one 38 WCF '66 carbine, and three pair 38 WCF revolvers. Please email us if you have questions about any of our product listings. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .38 Special or .44 S&W Special rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. Powered by Invision Community. This caused them to swell up slightly so they would not chamber in the '73. Were it me, all things being equal, I'd keep the 38-40 and sell the 44-40. There really isn't that much of an advantage over either caliber. ... JHP bullets optimized for self-defense, giving fans of the CCW revolver an alternative to the ubiquitous medium-bore .38 … granite city gunslingers cedar valley vigilantes, Green River Gunslingers, Wartrace Regulators, Richmond Roughriders, Coyote Valley Cowboys, Faultine Shootist Society,Two Rivers Posse, River City Regulators, Los Vaqueros, Old Pueblo Shootists, Tombstone Shootists. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. Others specify hunting or defense as the frame of reference for "best." That is to say, .38 Special bullets travel 1 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .44 S&W Special bullets travel 1 times that same speed. How powerful is a .44-40 caliber? Except for case length, the .38 and .357 are virtually identical. Usually, .38 Special ammunition is more widely available and less expensive to purchase than .44 Special ammunition. I have slugged them all, and they all have groove diameters of either .427 or .429. Limited capacity for limited gains. To answer that question, Paul Harrell holds class by testing several comparable loads by well-known makers. I have a 44-40 and like it better than .44 mag but that's just nostalgia. Modern 38-40 brass has slightly less powder capacity than modern 44-40 brass. If the .401 bullets are soft, and perhaps with a hollow base, and you shoot BP, the bullet will probably "slug up" to fit the rifling. The .44-40 Winchester rounds shoot flat out to 120 yards with a typical bullet grain of 200gr. The .44 hit so hard that it blew the block right over and the size of the cavity was pretty much the size of the whole block. The versatility of the cartridge, along with its capability of handling less-expensive .38 Special ammo is what lured me to this revolver. When I first started thinking about going the BP route I read up on it a bit. In other words, the article asked why the cartridge was ever created in the first place. It will be easier to find 44-40 pistols to go along with the rifle, but other than that, both will work fine for SASS. This load should be safe in all currently produced .44-40 sixguns, and in my 7-1/2-inch .44 Special New Frontier (with a .44-40 cylinder in place) clocks out at 950 fps and 1-inch, 25-yard groups. They are coming with a couple hundred brass for each. As illustrated in the chart, .38 Special rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 880 feet per second (fps) while .44 S&W Special rounds travel at a velocity of 910 fps. I have standardized on .428 for all my 44-40 loads, so I don't have to tailor the ammo to the rifle. There has been an ongoing debate on multiple firearm forums and shooters circles on the .38 Super vs .38 Special topic. One with a round Barrel the other one has a octagon Barrel . If the barrel is a little rough, you can get slightly oversize bullets from cowboybullets.com. For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. I have 5 Rifles in 44WCF and 8 Pistols . I didn't want to tool up for another caliber. This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. https://shootingmystery.com/38-super-vs-38-special-one-better-choice CAS, Black Powder, SW DA Revolvers, Trap, Woodworking, Model Trains, History, Reloading. By I've heard that too, but if true, then the "better" is simply overkill. But to be fair have seen 5.56  tracers go every which way. I imagine the 44-40 has taken just about as many deer as the 30-30. Why did I pass on it? My favorite everyday working load is 8.0 grains of Unique or Universal. At last count I think I own five rifles chambered for 44-40. If your interested I can email or text you pics if not im bringing it to gunsmoke this weekend. The 38 had no greater velocity than the 44, had the same effective range, penetrated the same number of pine boards, which was an old time measure of performance back in the day, fired the same weight of bullets, had identical accuracy, and so on and so forth. The .44-40 uses bullets a few thousandths smaller that the special or magnum. Started out with a Marlin saddle ring carbine that has been in the family for years. 44-40 brass might be easier to come by, but it hasn't been an issue either way. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .38 Special vs .44 S&W Special ammo rounds. True .38 Special and .44 S&W Special ballistics information can vary widely from the displayed information, and it is important to understand that the particular characteristics of a given round can make a substantive difference in its true performance. Have shot it in a plowed field once watched the Bullet skip 4 times . has garnered a reputation for accuracy and is respected as a target cartridge. You should buy both. Mom and part-time leatherworker and bullet caster, Lone Star Frontier Shooting Club, Comanche Valley Vigilantes, Riding the Grubline with only the stars for a roof and a tree branch to hang my hat. I think the .44-40 case is larger than the special, and is necked. I shoot the 44 round myself, but that's only because that's what I found in the used gun shop. Performance wise, when comparing the two cartridges, no appreciable difference could be noticed. bullets. I had a liner installed in my Marlin 1894 38WCF that has a twist 1-18. The .38 Special and .357 Magnum are both rimmed, centerfire cartridges commonly used in revolvers.
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