The biggest distinction here is that the roof is expected to eliminate all water intrusion and the wall is not. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. It can easily pass though drywall without sign or trace, the smallest crack is a wide open door to water vapor. I use a piece of aluminum screen at the very bottom to allow moisture to drain out, it's tucked up underneath a band of siding at the bottom and can't be seen without getting down low and looking up. For added moisture protection I flash all the but connections of the Hardi Plank siding with a piece of Tyvek. In that case, he’d have to install metal strapping for bracing before the foam is applied. A upflush toilet is attached to a sewage grinder pump or macerating pump that pumps the waste upward into a sewer line. I buil out the trim around the windows to match the additional polyisocyanurate sheet insulation and siding thickness. The upper part of the house wrap will adhere to the top of the sheeting with the same material I used on the seams. "A building enclosure rain control strategy that accepts that some water will penetrate the outer surface (the cladding, which “screens” rain) and removes this water back to the exterior by gravity drainage over a drainage plane, through a drainage gap, and exiting via flashing and weep holes.". At this point, we will now go to the specifics and the helpful techniques on how to insulate a flat roof from the outside and from the inside. The reverse is true in a hot humid climate. The test is recorded at a CFM-50 number which means how many cubic feet a minute of air is moving out of the house under a depressurization of 50 pascal which is a measurement of air pressure. Bond, Good to Know. Step 2: Insulate the Header Joists. This is the infrared photo of the door when it is -2 outside. and not for a wall? Doug said: I know, I know- this is where you explain to me that you have a better and less expensive alternative to the "conventional framing method" and I am aware of the methods that you would most likely suggest. How to Insulate Walls in an Old House. Our building codes require a certain size window in the bedrooms for egress and I want to comply with code. The blower door test results showed just how much air leakage we have in the house. @ Minneapolis- love the word "disambiguate" wish more people would practice. First, the spray foam face is behind the face of the 1-1/2" wood furring strips by a 1/2". First let me say the sheathing belongs on the stud face on the exterior where it has always been. Another very good post, you should start a thread and post some photos in the Q&A, "if the cavity insulation is If you have the headroom, you can gain at least one extra room by finishing…, What you need to know to install polyisocyanurate, XPS, or EPS on the outside of your walls. Call me Conservative ...or a slow learner We obviously live in a very cold climate and winter temperatures regularly reach -20°F to -30°F.”. DIY or Contractor to insulate a shipping container. Q. These guys talk like me! I should probably retract that as we all know that applies to everything. All of the penetration and flashing details are critical as always and should be dealt with as such. A very small percentage of siding goes on the wall with any back venting. Sheathing the roof with traditional sheathing materials, additional framing members stood off the roof to some predetermined thickness based on dew point calculations, a monolithic and seamless application of CC spray foam. Gregg is renovating his 50-year-old house in Wisconsin and trying to devise the best way of insulating exterior walls from the outside. This gives you a nailing base as … Cavity wall. Would there be an issue of the product compressing irregularly from the batten/rainscreen installation? If I was working on this project when the temperatures were over 50-f I would be using a water-based product for air sealing. Here is a infrared photo of what is happening when it is -2 Fahrenheit outside. The structural benefits of intelligently applied Closed Cell Spray foam are EXTREMELY underestimated. A thick layer of rigid foam insulation amounts to a vapor barrier on the outside of a house. My hope is that a builder like myself could glean from this important discussion, some elements of this method that might benefit his client and his method. Q. Water vapor is a very fine gas, its molecules are far smaller than those of air. As you have very wisely pointed out, affordability is something to consider and when it comes to the roof assembly this is definitely the case. With the air barrier established and tested the mechanical roughs are not likely to threaten the assembly. You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. Check out: OLD WALLS CAN SABOTAGE INSULATION EFFORTS Simply attach insulated sheathing panels or foam boards directly to the studs, or to … By the way the furring strips are rock solid attached on three sides by high density foam. This is how I stopped the cold air from blowing into my house. I encourage you to pursue your passion and have fun whenever you attempt a new project. Sign up for a free trial and get instant access to this article as well as GBA’s complete library of premium articles and Handling leaks People fall in love with the character rich architecture of these homes, but they don’t want the crazy heating and cooling bills that come along with that character.. Splitting the necessary thickness of insulation between cavity-fill and external is a sensible idea. It keeps the underlying structure warm and as a result drier. Installing insulation that acts as a vapour barrier on the outside will not serve you well, except if you add enough of it, to the point where about 2/3rds of the total insulation is on the outside. There should be very little "leakage" in the field of the siding. Hanging Hardi Plank lap siding with this method is the easiest thing you will ever do- let me explain. As its name suggests, external insulation is placed outside the house: Energy-Smart Details: Rigid foam on the roof and walls. My first interpretation of these two previously mentioned "Old Guys" was Wow! When remodeling, one of the best and fastest ways to insulate is using blown-in insulation. Will This Roof in Snow Country be a Problem? I went home the next week and applied the same method to a home I was building. I live in a cold climate and when it was -2 Fahrenheit which equals -19 Celsius I used a infrared camera and took some photos. If you want to insulate an area in your crawl space, attic, or... 2. I also painted the spray foam and furring strips behind the siding for extra protection against moisture but I really feel this is just a precautionary measure. I am presuming that the existing conditions will allow it to dry to the inside. Again, closed cell spray foam is both vapor and air impermeable and in addition to that I have helped the situation of drying with the 1/2" airspace. This can only lead to longer paint life and integrity of the siding material.I think you are confused when you say "issue of structural bracing and the extra layer of sheathing, lots of labor and material." I was first introduced to it by Dr. John Straube in Colorado at an EEBA conference. ... A conditioned or unvented crawlspace is sealed against the outside air and is heated and cooled much like a room in your home. I assume you are a builder with a "desire to to do better" as am I. Always assume that water is going to find its way through siding and provide a way to direct it back outside while providing inward-drying potential. And they think like me! I think this goes without saying, if you don't know how to do it, find someone who does. If your home has solid walls, the bricks will have an alternating pattern, with some bricks laid across the wall so you can see the smaller ends from the outside. *, The target area for air sealing is elevated above the ground by 24 inches. Would it not apply to the rain water management details, or the framing details, or the materials takeoff- of course it does. If you apply insulation to the outside of a foundation, please note that rigid insulation and its protective covering can provide concealed access for insect infestation. What he’d like to do is strip the hardboard siding and fiberboard sheathing off the house, add new insulation from the outside and re-sheath and side the house, leaving interior walls intact. Kudos to you Installing insulation product, such as ceiling panels, mass-loaded-vinyl, neoprene rubber, viscoelastic foam, and fibreglass behind walls and ceiling panels can drastically lessen the amount of noise coming in, or out, of your home. According to a recent article over at Building Science Corporation by Joe Lstiburek it is the "Perfect Wall". "if the cavity insulation is not air-permeable, then the first condensing surface is not the structural sheathing, and that is really what you are trying to avoid.". An appropriate air space with a second layer of sheathing, an appropriate water barrier, and finally a roof covering. Keeping Your Electric Vehicle on the Road, The Associated Costs of Installing a Ductless Minisplit System, A Beginner's Guide to High-Performance Windows. Using rockwool in place of foam John, On the outside of the house use a rubberized flashing tape or a sealing compound with fiber mesh tape to seal around the edges of the door and over the nailing flanges of the windows. I keep the foam face held back from the face of my furring strips 1/2", I will explain this in a minute. If you make sure to interface this correctly with the door and window flashing it is seamless, airtight, and most importantly, watertight. Blowing in insulation is the least invasive method of insulating your old house. What do windows and window casings do sometimes?...they leak The house is a single story wood frame house with a full basement made with concrete blocks. Why is "not-so-perfect" Good enough for a roof? Generally, disposable and refillable spray insulation tanks are sold as part of a spray... 3. I don't have anywhere near the perspective that guys like Mr Lstiburek and Mr. Straube have because quite frankly, I'm not an "Old Guy" yet. But you have to get the plaster tested for asbestos. What about around windows and penetrations? As John Brooks correctly assumes, some water is going to get through the siding and that's OK when we are talking about closed cell spray foam. How to air seal an old house from the outside is explained below. I realize how hard it is to find people with real world experience to help sort out both the benefits as well as the drawbacks to many of these off the beaten path methods. Don't get tricky just keep it simple. You can find people who do blower door test when you search for Energy Auditor Companies. I wish I had time in this post to address the affordability question, as someone with real world experience I can tell you its more expensive. If the window is sitting on the rough sill then use caulk to seal the bottom of the window to prevent air from blowing into the house. Remove the soffit to expose the upper part of the sheeting. Insulate your walls and ceiling. Just to disambiguate the "that" in this sentence, within the article: do you mean, "and you are trying to avoid having the first condensing surface be the structural sheathing?" Big deal -- it still works. As Bond Campbell wrote on 05/03/2011 three and a half inches of closed cell insulation polystyrene will solve the "Dew Point" problem The inside of a home is nearly always more humid than the outside, in temperate and cold areas.... and minus 20 to 30C fits that criteria. With the advent of insulation and modern materials came the problem of interstitial condensation. It looks to me like the pants are tucked into the rainboots. and not for a wall?- Cellulose Guy- "man our stuff is elastic and it moves with the house and it breathes but not to much and that closed cell stuff is just to expensive and to rigid and it doesn't breath and its toxic and don't buy all that crap about structural value and racking load man". of spray polyurethane foam insulation into the stud bays. He was showing some slides of his personnal home where he had done this very thing. Solid wall. A continuous layer of insulating sheathing applied to the exterior surface of a wall will minimize condensation and moisture levels. On the other hand, the second major type of flat roof is warm roof insulation, which is the exact opposite of cold roof insulation because, in this case, you will insulate your flat roof from the outside. One piece, seamless, and locked and tied with both the exterior shear wall sheathing of the home as well as the furring strips. The house wrap helps hold the insulation in place and slows airflow. Thats how I landed on this web site. No, I am not suggesting that the walls be built to leak. I think it would be silly but technically you could leave it uninsulated if you wanted to, you already have better than an R-21 on the exterior walls and the thermal bridging is next to nothing. The insulation in the walls is fiberglass rolled batts. If you want to learn how to start removing the siding with a common screwdriver check out this link https://howtosquirrel.com/8-easy-steps-to-unlock-and-remove-vinyl-siding-without-a-siding-removal-tool/. Insulating the inside of the slab negates need for the termite inspection gap, provides protection for the insulation, and is often visually preferred. Why replace the sheathing and fiberglass I used a product called “zip tape” which is very sticky and a rubber product. In a perfect world, you would be able to magically place insulation behind the closed drywall panels and be done with it. The windows and doors are installed without tape or caulk. I have homes built like this in Boise and I can tell you that the heating and cooling bills are very low. He plans to tear off both siding and sheathing and remove the batt insulation, then apply 3 in. The next item to be installed is furring strips to hold down the house wrap and also the furring strips is where you can reattach the vinyl siding. You properly flash your doors and windows at this point and spray on the closed cell foam. If you want to avoid moisture problems and mold, choose your insulation materials carefully, Attics are a great place to reclaim living space without the expense of an addition. Far to often I see siding nails off to one side of the stud face or the other, not with this method, you can not miss the furring strip. I also know that your opinion would differ in terms of durability with some of the "old guys". This is the perfect tome to add additional R-value to the walls by attaching foam insulation. You will need to remove the trim around the windows and using window and door spray foam foam the gap around the sides. Insulating your home with external wall insulation cost less than you think. This step is just as important as the sealing around the windows. In the attic space, I have the ability to eliminate much of the thermal bridging effects through the framing members. edit to add link to apples & turds Its as simple as hold the siding up to the furring strip face and nail it to the wall, no guessing where the stud is. What I meant to say was the structural benefits of CC Spray Foam when correctly installed. The siding is vinyl clapboard style siding that comes in 8-inch wide strips 12 foot long and the sheeting is OSB oriented strand board. Cover the entire exposed area of the foundation and extend the insulation at least 18 inches into the ground. The Dublin homes below show the external insulation work done and example prices, showing you that getting your home so late on a very cost-effective option. Next discussion topic was mentioned by Doug: It is a beautiful thing. The word “insulation” typically brings to mind lofty batts of spun fiberglass, rigid foam panels and blown-in cellulose. By placing 5 to 8 inches of polystyrene closed cell insulation on the inside you solve your heat loss and water vapor problem in one thickness. A lack of wall insulation means an overtaxed heating or cooling system that diligently blows hot or cold air, yet with a house envelope that isn't cooperating. External roof insulation: the principle. I installed the house wrap so it hangs down onto the concrete blocks. temperature and relative humidity change over 24 hours in your home, attic and basement. Let me try to help as I have been successfully applying rigid foam on the exterior of the wall for a couple of years now. Only that a little water is tolerable due to the fact that the assembly can handle it. Drain and insulate. I believe this is why it's good enough for Mr. Lstiburek to call it the "perfect wall" and Mr. Straube to use this method on his own home. Insulating Walls for New Homes and Remodeling . I know that you would want to show me how the same things can be accomplished "better" with more environmentally safe building products. Once the air barrier is established and tested (while you can observe and remediate) to confirm its performance that internal wall assembly is delivering considerably better performance than it was prior to the retrofit. How to Insulate an Exterior Face of a Concrete Block Wall. Knowing how to insulate walls in an old house may not be as important as knowing whether to insulate them. Home Insulation Grants. Definition of Rainscreen from BSC Glossary: A metal mesh screen or bent metal (mouse guard) like drip edge should be placed along the bottom of the furring strips to keep insects and rodents from making a home behind the siding. Some builders choose to put rigid foam on the exterior side of the housewrap; that's what is shown in the illustration. Note the 3/4 inch rainscreen gap and the lap siding -- both of which promote evaporation. It either goes in from the interior walls, which requires patching holes, or from the exterior, which requires prying up siding and drilling through the sheathing, adding to the cost of professional installation. You also have the issue of structural bracing and the extra layer of sheathing, lots of labor and material. "When I look at an illustration like the one above, I try to imagine what happens to the water that gets past the siding. ;-). If you don't know how thick that is find someone who does. This is easy to confirm, simply buy a Weather Station with two or three transmitters, attach it to your computer and see how the air Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. Finding A Wall Stud Or A Ceiling Joist, It's So Easy A Guy Could Do It. I had read about a potential installation using 4" stand off blocking/backing installed with a clip similar to a commercial curtain wall but that is even more off topic and would just be interested in some firsthand knowledge of Roxul since I don't think petroleum based products like foam, polyurethane and plastics are a long term sustainable solution for building materials. But that's not to say you couldnt also put cellulose, fiberglass, open cell foam, blue jeans, sawdust, or just about anything you wanted in the interior side of the exterior walls. Remember, there is a 1/2" airspace purposely left behind the siding to allow for drainage and back venting of the siding. A guy who finds its necessary to move well in front of "code compliance" and "energy star" and "Green building labels". Its not hidden behind a layer of OSB or plywood and a layer of Tyvek. With interior insulation, the entire space between the rafters is filled with insulating material and then covered with a plasterboard or wood panel finish that is then painted or wallpapered. Fiberglass Guy- "man our stuff is elastic and it moves with the house and it breathes but not to much and that closed cell stuff is just to expensive and to rigid and it doesn't breath and its toxic and don't buy all that crap about structural value and racking load man". Insulate Step 1 Apply the weather adhesive to top of the molding. Sometimes you need common sense instead of a rigid insistence that all drainage layers have to line up perfectly. Smart … If so you and I would have a lot in common. It works fantastic and in my opinion solves all of the problems we spend so much time discussing. Hi. A blower door test depressurizes the house and measures the amount of air is coming into it from the outside. Watching the hourly changes can help one understand the problem. construction details. When insulating the inside, first of all, protect the walls against moisture. This method may allow condensation to form inside walls. By the way I recommend Hardi Plank Siding in this application. Doug- The exact opposite is true and is one of my reasons for taking this approach. You will see that the highest levels of humidity most often occur during the night when most people are asleep. I have noticed for quite some time that the floor on the north side wall of my house has always been cold in the winter. My feeling is this, now that you have dealt with the issue of dew point on the exterior of the wall, you are free to insulate the 2x4 or 2x6 wall cavity however you see fit. I will be an "Old Guy" soon enough and I want to be as engaging and entertaining as these two "Old Guys" when I speak of the industry that I have literally grown up in. To air seal the windows and doors will be done from the inside of the house. The house was built conventionally, with 2×4 walls, fiberglass batt insulation, fiberboard sheathing, and hardboard siding. In the same bedroom I am removing the small window and installing a egress window in case of fire. The door I am taking out and installing a window in its place is in bedroom #1. It is a "perfect wall" that transitions to a "not-so-perfect" roof ? I used a flexible, spreadable product that is available “off the shelf” and can be used in cold weather. How not to insulate a wall? A couple of key details in conclusion of this process on the exterior. The OSB itself will let air penetrate because of the way it is made. On a table in the middle of the room is fine) I will post an update with the infrared photos and blower door test once the entire project is completed. It evaporates. I don't want to try to cut it- seam it- fit it - caulk it-tape it- and worry about it. John, Response to Minneapolis Disaster You don't need a gutter and a 3-inch PVC pipe at the bottom of a wall to collect the water that gets past the siding. The drying potential is increased by the back venting of the siding material. Blown-in insulation, when installed with the dense pack technique, will offer superior air sealing. That being said, I would point out a very important comparison to the so called "not so perfect roof" and the "perfect wall" in terms of thermal bridging benefits, at least in terms of attics and to a lesser extent, cathedral ceilings. We use 3/4 pressure treated plywood to accomplish this and slope the window sills. The way I will explain in the rest of this article is how I did it from the outside and also did a insulation upgrade. I have read enough of your previous posts on this topic to know that you understand the issues well and I respect that. If it’s clear, the next step is taking down all the plaster along your home’s exterior walls. Upflush toilets are used in basement bathrooms where you do not want to install... Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), link to Finding A Wall Stud Or A Ceiling Joist, It's So Easy A Guy Could Do It, link to Basement Bathrooms made simple, what kind of toilets do I need, https://howtosquirrel.com/8-easy-steps-to-unlock-and-remove-vinyl-siding-without-a-siding-removal-tool/. "How does water exit at the bottom of the wall? I wonder how much money in heating cost was wasted because of this one defect. To insulate older homes, you must remove the cladding and weather barrier, drill the sheathing and blow or inject loose fill or foam insulation, replace the windows, install flashing properly integrated with the water resistive barrier, and replace the cladding, ideally adding a rainscreen. Yes. If you have a broad molding on your window, apply to the far back. (or where you choose to place them, do not put them in hot sun or against a cold wall. By the way, I am a builder first, and a spray foam contractor second. Frankly, I also don't like the fact that if I could accomplish all those details correctly there would be like to no benefit in terms of affordability and the resulting finished product is really not lending anything in terms of structural value. The window I am replacing is in the kitchen over the sink and we can feel the cold air in the winter when the north wind is blowing. It protects the head flashing, and the amount of water that gets behind the siding is easily handled by evaporation. If this is posted in the wrong section of GBA I will gladly go elsewhere. A. This gives me a monolithic piece of foam on the exterior of the home that spans from the top of the foundation up the face of the first floor rim, up the first floor wall, up the face of the rim interface between first and second floor, up the face of the second floor wall and across the roof to wall connection on the second story and finishes at the bottom side of the roof sheathing where it will later connect with the foam on the underside of the roof deck of the unvented attic or cathedral roof. Dry bits of insulation that get blown into wall cavities through holes 1 to 2½ inches wide. Many homeowners have made the mistake of drilling holes in walls, blowing in cellulose insulation and tightly sealing walls back up. Chances are good that if your house was built before the 1960’s, there is little to no insulation. Get building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox. Insulating on the inside will use less materials (It will also make the rooms smaller) It will cost less, be easier, will not change the appearance of his home and will ensure that there are no “While I like the idea of eliminating thermal bridging through the studs,” Gregg writes in this Q&A post at GreenBuildingAdvisor, my concern is that there will be an air gap between the two layers of foam insulation (both of which have limited permeability). This should be the same thickness as the foam will be, probably an inch and a half, if not three inches (two layers of foam boards). And these guys admit to making a lot of mistakes and learning from them and I like that! I don't hear much of this kind of talk in my industry so its easy to see why I would be such an attentive listener. Gregg is renovating his 50-year-old house in Wisconsin and trying to devise the best way of insulating exterior walls from the outside. Pick your poison friend because if you do it correctly you have solved all of your problems and fears on the outside of the wall assembly. Older houses or converted cottages often have minimal insulation in the walls. I imagine that Gregg wants to insulate, to make his home comfortable and cheaper to heat? Hey John, The first one is insulating it from the inside—so taking down the plaster and putting in insulation. Basement Bathrooms made simple, what kind of toilets do I need. Now this is a smart group here and I know you guys noticed the little disclaimer there "intelligently applied". The house was built conventionally, with 2×4 walls, fiberglass batt insulation, fiberboard sheathing, and hardboard siding. Can Exterior Foam Insulation Cause Mold and Moisture Problems? If So....Why is "not-so-perfect" Good enough for a roof? All I have to offer is my 20 years of experience as a home builder. Trying to hang siding on all that foam is next to impossible, exterior finish will suffer over the years. Make sure you have a suitable space for spray foam. Martin, I installed a cheap window before I discovered the amount of money good windows and air sealing could save. I get asked a lot about insulating old houses, especially in the wintertime. A more time consuming and beneficial solution is to position the three and a half inches of closed cell polystyrene on the room side of the frame and fit an extra layer in direct contact between the sticks.
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